Interesting. In our world, it seems, Lee’s politics, as expressed in his comics and eleswhere, have varied sharply over the years. Although during the period when this story begins, his work had a decided rightist–some have said McCarthyist–slant. On the other hand, while Kirby found Lee too conservative, Ditko thought him too liberal. So it’s anyone’s guess where Webmasters Lee will go with the “Spidey in ‘Nam” story.
Also, I note with approval T’s attention to detail regarding the punctuation of mainstream comics at that time! Every sentence that isn’t a question ends in an exclamation mark! Depending on whom you ask, that was either because periods didn’t always show up under the photoreproduction technology of the time, or because it made the writing seem more dynamic and exciting!
we can only pray Stephen. i admit, i collected X-men, New Mutants, and pretty much everything with an X in its title till the X-ecutioner’s song storyline, i still kept track of comics events and ‘one more day’ i felt was a huge slap in the face to the fans. esp. when OMD was one of the contributing factors for slumping sales at marvel that ended up with the deal with Disney. and he passes it off like it was a good thing. >_<
So far, this comic is way too… wholesome for my tastes. I feel like I eating a bowl of Wheaties in the 60’s or something.
I love “What If’s” but this one has not grabbed me at all yet. I’ve read(and continue to read) Spiderman comics for about 16 years at this point, but I follow story-lines. I know little about pencilers or inkers. Additionally, I’m nowhere near old enough to get any heart-pulls from talk of the Kennedy assassinations, or to feel how ‘edgy’ it would have been to send Spiderman to Vietnam instead of the moon. That, combined with the (very good) but Archie style art and I feel like I’m watching an episode of Father Knows Best.
I ‘know'(in my head) you’re being more offbeat than a show like that, but the 60’s counter cultural movement is still 50 years old at this point. It does not feel gritty for a 30-year-old like myself. I know we are only on page 4, and maybe you’ll pick it up soon, but I will be honest, if I was leafing through this at the ol’ comic store I would put it down at this point as memories of “Stan does DC” flashed through my head. I don’t like the old fashioned comic story telling style, it’s too old fashion. I don’t have enough emotions invested in what I’m being told because I’m not old enough. I would know reading this that it was not for me.
But, who is it for then? I worked at a comic shop for a few years. Most people that went in there were also not old enough for this. And, if they were, they too had gotten tired of the old-timey way of writing comics. They don’t -genrally- like Archie either, of -if they do- they would not be picking up a spiderman title anyway.
Now, I know I am being “that guy” right now, and I am sorry for that, but it is BECAUSE I have such respect fo you that I wrote this. Because of that respect, I will not be putting this down, and will keep reading ’till the end, but if I had never heard of you I would put this comic back on the shelf and move on.
@Lich Mong: I suspect where T is going with this, is that it’s a story about stories. Metafiction, if you will. So the take-away from Webmasters, if I prove correct, would be not the immediate context of “Now, boys and girls, do what Mr. Herberts did and take responsibility for preventing crimes (and eat your Wheaties 😀 )!”. But rather, the take-away would be, “What happens when a story initially created purely for entertainment (and to make money for the publisher and creators) takes on, for its readers, a purpose the creators never imagined?”
That purpose-never-imagined needn’t be an “Only you can prevent crime, boys and girls!” message. (Indeed, in the previous strip we see Lee actively rejecting that purpose, and preferring that the series remain devoted to escapist entertainment–“marvel.”)
What I’m saying is, look at this as a thought experiment, an exercise in metafiction. That seems to be more where T’s going with it.
I know its a metastory. I don’t yet expect and people with superpowers to be in the story proper, I am just saying he has not given me something to care about yet. I know he is currently just setting a stage for me, but I don’t find this world interesting. As of right now it seems to just be “What If…. comics/superheros were mainstream earlier!” Which -to me- is boring at best, and narcissistic to read (in a comic book) at worst.
Again IMO, this is made even more unbearable by the manner in which the story is being told. The Archie art and the Stan “Excelsior!” storytelling is something I -frankly- find insulting to read in a modern comic.
Now, look, I’m just some schlub on the ‘web. Maybe I don’t understand the depth of the narrative or cannot appreciate the subtle undertones happening as the curtain is being drawn back. I am telling you my opinion and it could very well be my opinion, like so many out there, is WRONG. However, in this matter, you will not be able to argue me into liking these first 4 pages. I read ’em; I understand ’em; and I don’t like ’em. Now, I’ll keep reading, and if when I get to the end I see this story as a masterwork, I will write another post about how wrong I was and apologize.
But, explaining to me what these 4 pages are about or what is being attempted with only cause me to argue HARDER about why I don’t like them. Call me bullheaded if you want, roll your eyes at my foolishness, but you’re not going to be able to “convince me” that the story (so far) is one I would like. A story needs to stand on its own. I am telling you this would be the page I would normally stop reading. A clever -side- explanation would not change that because I would not get one in the comic store. (probably, I mean, if it WAS a masterwork in the next 40 pages then maybe the shop clerk would tell me about it when I put it down)
The work always needs to speak for itself. I appreciate the honest appraisal– for obvious reasons, I hear far less from the people who aren’t interested in an idea.
That said, the only issue I have is the idea that the style is “insulting.” We’re not using this style because we think you’re stupid. We’re doing it because it serves some larger goals, and we think you (the plural you, the readers) can handle the departure from the norm.
the departure from the norm.
That’s sorta the issue, it’s NOT -really- that. It would be like saying drawing Kirby’s style in 2012 is a “the departure from the norm,” or making a hand washer instead of a washing machine is a departure from the norm.
Back to the Kirby example, everyone copied Kirby for quite awhile. While it was ground breaking at the time, it was improved upon and updated and changed and evolved. I can appreciate a old Kirby comic for what it was, but of someone wanted to sell me on a comic made today in exactly that style they better have a darn good reason (which you might). I can read old comics and appreciate their antiquated techniques for what they are, but something like this seems like a reproduction antique. There are plenty of old comics I’ve not read yet, why should I read this new-old comic before them? It’s a “Seinfeld Is Unfunny” trope, except you’re not even Seinfeld.
Now, again, I know I am sounding like a disgruntled troll, and -again- I am sorry for that. I’ll keep reading, and I will be quite and keep an open mind until the end. At that time I will post again, probably apologizing. I also feel I should say -in the interest of full disclosure- that I am already bias against “Just Imagine” with Stan Lee. So, maybe I was just destined to hate this no matter what.
FWIW, Lich, I don’t think you’re coming across as a troll, not one bit. If you were, I wouldn’t have bothered engaging you. There’s no need to apologize for standing your ground in an argument.
@ Jason. personally, i preferred it when you guys ran Acadamy (damn you to hell Ben Dunn) and self-published the sentinels and assorted Robotech ‘what if’ stories (still have aftermath: threadbare heart, Clone and Mordecai) but then, as ive stated before, i got to talking for a while with Tavisha and Rikki who helped me out with their other little project after Clone was canceled (Reality Check!)
@ Lich. no, you dont seem to be coming off as a troll to me, either, just stating your concerns over the story which doesnt seem to strike your fancy. nothing wrong with that. you’ve been pretty resepctful and i think the harshest you’ve basically said is ‘im not liking the story’ its not like you’re attacking T or Jason right?
@ Alice. you truly are the best of us here, milady.
@Alice: Don’t know. haven’t ever tried to do Lucey or Bolling. I’m having a time doing Ditko and Romita here.
@Jason: well, we(John and I) didn’t really RUN Academy, but I get what you mean. Jean Elane was a sweet lady publisher to work for. She kept Sentinels going as long as she could.
@Jason. ahh. i guess its been a while since i read them, havent really touched the comics i saved from my collection for years. still, she was kickass for keeping you guys going for as long as she did. which leads me to another question (i know off-topic) but was the regents shocktroopers from the last issue of book four, were those meant to be you and John’s version of the ‘special children’ from the books?
Interesting. In our world, it seems, Lee’s politics, as expressed in his comics and eleswhere, have varied sharply over the years. Although during the period when this story begins, his work had a decided rightist–some have said McCarthyist–slant. On the other hand, while Kirby found Lee too conservative, Ditko thought him too liberal. So it’s anyone’s guess where Webmasters Lee will go with the “Spidey in ‘Nam” story.
Neal Adams/Tom Palmer
Gene Colan/Tom Palmer
John Romita/Jim Mooney
Gil Kane/Romita/Mooney
Or sub any of the inkers with Dick Giordano….
Pure Eyegasms.
Also, I note with approval T’s attention to detail regarding the punctuation of mainstream comics at that time! Every sentence that isn’t a question ends in an exclamation mark! Depending on whom you ask, that was either because periods didn’t always show up under the photoreproduction technology of the time, or because it made the writing seem more dynamic and exciting!
Or…maybe both!
I really hope this time-line’s peter doesnt end up becoming Frank Castle before Frank Castle…spider-Punisher doesnt seem to have the same ring to it.
I think the “Spidey-soldier” sketch is actually pretty good. Might be something there.
I just realized, maybe in this world one more day never happened.
I’m just waiting for President Nixon and Spidergate.
You know it’s coming.
we can only pray Stephen. i admit, i collected X-men, New Mutants, and pretty much everything with an X in its title till the X-ecutioner’s song storyline, i still kept track of comics events and ‘one more day’ i felt was a huge slap in the face to the fans. esp. when OMD was one of the contributing factors for slumping sales at marvel that ended up with the deal with Disney. and he passes it off like it was a good thing. >_<
So far, this comic is way too… wholesome for my tastes. I feel like I eating a bowl of Wheaties in the 60’s or something.
I love “What If’s” but this one has not grabbed me at all yet. I’ve read(and continue to read) Spiderman comics for about 16 years at this point, but I follow story-lines. I know little about pencilers or inkers. Additionally, I’m nowhere near old enough to get any heart-pulls from talk of the Kennedy assassinations, or to feel how ‘edgy’ it would have been to send Spiderman to Vietnam instead of the moon. That, combined with the (very good) but Archie style art and I feel like I’m watching an episode of Father Knows Best.
I ‘know'(in my head) you’re being more offbeat than a show like that, but the 60’s counter cultural movement is still 50 years old at this point. It does not feel gritty for a 30-year-old like myself. I know we are only on page 4, and maybe you’ll pick it up soon, but I will be honest, if I was leafing through this at the ol’ comic store I would put it down at this point as memories of “Stan does DC” flashed through my head. I don’t like the old fashioned comic story telling style, it’s too old fashion. I don’t have enough emotions invested in what I’m being told because I’m not old enough. I would know reading this that it was not for me.
But, who is it for then? I worked at a comic shop for a few years. Most people that went in there were also not old enough for this. And, if they were, they too had gotten tired of the old-timey way of writing comics. They don’t -genrally- like Archie either, of -if they do- they would not be picking up a spiderman title anyway.
Now, I know I am being “that guy” right now, and I am sorry for that, but it is BECAUSE I have such respect fo you that I wrote this. Because of that respect, I will not be putting this down, and will keep reading ’till the end, but if I had never heard of you I would put this comic back on the shelf and move on.
@Lich Mong: I suspect where T is going with this, is that it’s a story about stories. Metafiction, if you will. So the take-away from Webmasters, if I prove correct, would be not the immediate context of “Now, boys and girls, do what Mr. Herberts did and take responsibility for preventing crimes (and eat your Wheaties 😀 )!”. But rather, the take-away would be, “What happens when a story initially created purely for entertainment (and to make money for the publisher and creators) takes on, for its readers, a purpose the creators never imagined?”
That purpose-never-imagined needn’t be an “Only you can prevent crime, boys and girls!” message. (Indeed, in the previous strip we see Lee actively rejecting that purpose, and preferring that the series remain devoted to escapist entertainment–“marvel.”)
What I’m saying is, look at this as a thought experiment, an exercise in metafiction. That seems to be more where T’s going with it.
I know its a metastory. I don’t yet expect and people with superpowers to be in the story proper, I am just saying he has not given me something to care about yet. I know he is currently just setting a stage for me, but I don’t find this world interesting. As of right now it seems to just be “What If…. comics/superheros were mainstream earlier!” Which -to me- is boring at best, and narcissistic to read (in a comic book) at worst.
Again IMO, this is made even more unbearable by the manner in which the story is being told. The Archie art and the Stan “Excelsior!” storytelling is something I -frankly- find insulting to read in a modern comic.
Now, look, I’m just some schlub on the ‘web. Maybe I don’t understand the depth of the narrative or cannot appreciate the subtle undertones happening as the curtain is being drawn back. I am telling you my opinion and it could very well be my opinion, like so many out there, is WRONG. However, in this matter, you will not be able to argue me into liking these first 4 pages. I read ’em; I understand ’em; and I don’t like ’em. Now, I’ll keep reading, and if when I get to the end I see this story as a masterwork, I will write another post about how wrong I was and apologize.
But, explaining to me what these 4 pages are about or what is being attempted with only cause me to argue HARDER about why I don’t like them. Call me bullheaded if you want, roll your eyes at my foolishness, but you’re not going to be able to “convince me” that the story (so far) is one I would like. A story needs to stand on its own. I am telling you this would be the page I would normally stop reading. A clever -side- explanation would not change that because I would not get one in the comic store. (probably, I mean, if it WAS a masterwork in the next 40 pages then maybe the shop clerk would tell me about it when I put it down)
The work always needs to speak for itself. I appreciate the honest appraisal– for obvious reasons, I hear far less from the people who aren’t interested in an idea.
That said, the only issue I have is the idea that the style is “insulting.” We’re not using this style because we think you’re stupid. We’re doing it because it serves some larger goals, and we think you (the plural you, the readers) can handle the departure from the norm.
I’m obviously working for the wrong publisher. I’m going to Archie Comics.
Well, Jason, we’ve seen you do Dan Decarlo. Keeping with the retro-sixties ethos, can you do a convincing Harry Lucey or Bob Bolling? 😀
the departure from the norm.
That’s sorta the issue, it’s NOT -really- that. It would be like saying drawing Kirby’s style in 2012 is a “the departure from the norm,” or making a hand washer instead of a washing machine is a departure from the norm.
Back to the Kirby example, everyone copied Kirby for quite awhile. While it was ground breaking at the time, it was improved upon and updated and changed and evolved. I can appreciate a old Kirby comic for what it was, but of someone wanted to sell me on a comic made today in exactly that style they better have a darn good reason (which you might). I can read old comics and appreciate their antiquated techniques for what they are, but something like this seems like a reproduction antique. There are plenty of old comics I’ve not read yet, why should I read this new-old comic before them? It’s a “Seinfeld Is Unfunny” trope, except you’re not even Seinfeld.
Now, again, I know I am sounding like a disgruntled troll, and -again- I am sorry for that. I’ll keep reading, and I will be quite and keep an open mind until the end. At that time I will post again, probably apologizing. I also feel I should say -in the interest of full disclosure- that I am already bias against “Just Imagine” with Stan Lee. So, maybe I was just destined to hate this no matter what.
FWIW, Lich, I don’t think you’re coming across as a troll, not one bit. If you were, I wouldn’t have bothered engaging you. There’s no need to apologize for standing your ground in an argument.
@ Jason. personally, i preferred it when you guys ran Acadamy (damn you to hell Ben Dunn) and self-published the sentinels and assorted Robotech ‘what if’ stories (still have aftermath: threadbare heart, Clone and Mordecai) but then, as ive stated before, i got to talking for a while with Tavisha and Rikki who helped me out with their other little project after Clone was canceled (Reality Check!)
@ Lich. no, you dont seem to be coming off as a troll to me, either, just stating your concerns over the story which doesnt seem to strike your fancy. nothing wrong with that. you’ve been pretty resepctful and i think the harshest you’ve basically said is ‘im not liking the story’ its not like you’re attacking T or Jason right?
@ Alice. you truly are the best of us here, milady.
@Alice: Don’t know. haven’t ever tried to do Lucey or Bolling. I’m having a time doing Ditko and Romita here.
@Jason: well, we(John and I) didn’t really RUN Academy, but I get what you mean. Jean Elane was a sweet lady publisher to work for. She kept Sentinels going as long as she could.
@Jason. ahh. i guess its been a while since i read them, havent really touched the comics i saved from my collection for years. still, she was kickass for keeping you guys going for as long as she did. which leads me to another question (i know off-topic) but was the regents shocktroopers from the last issue of book four, were those meant to be you and John’s version of the ‘special children’ from the books?