Nice to see some of Ru’s patriotism as well as her smarts. She’s been kicking butt in these new Fans runs so much you forget how much conviction and cunning she has.
I have a theory that it’ll end in pain and death for all involed… And we’ll have the next story be a follow up to this one contueing the fight to it’s finish and possablly after it as well.
I gotta say it’s a little odd to see Rumy, of all people, speaking so ardently in favor of the good ol’ US of A. I know that for Rumy Japan means stifling norms, suffocating conformity, constant subjugation, yadda, yadda, yadda, and the States means wonderful freedom to indulge in geekiness, artistic self-fulfillment and kinky sex, brighter sunshines, greener pastures and so on, but it’s still odd to see her defend so earnestly the honor of a country that has so much history with her country of origin. Or is Rumy so disgusted with Japan that she wants to dissociate from it completely?
America, for the most part, and please note that I said for the most part, owns up to its crapulence. We acknowledge our mistakes, like Japanese Internment Camps, the slaughter of the Natives, etc, etc. Japan is still denying its holocause that it committed on Chinese, Korean, and other natives that it concquored during WWII, doesn’t acknowledge that us dropping bombs on Hiroshima and Nagisaki saved lives in the long run for both sides, and other things where they screwed up. Maybe she’s just acknowledging that, for the most part, we’re the least evil choice out there.
The Hyperman thing still bothers me a bit, given that he WAS well-intentioned in his original story. Dunno how I feel about what’s looking like a retcon.
She likes America. She liked it enough to move here and join its government. I don’t think it’s odd for her to defend it.
I don’t think that thinking of herself as an American necessarily means she’s disgusted with everything (or anything) about Japan though. It just means that, first and foremost, she identifies with her new culture rather than her old one.
In fact, people who willingly move to another country often feel much more patriotic about their new home than most natives. While natives grew up there by chance, Rumy picked a country that embodied what she wanted in a country, and then made a choice to alter her whole life in order to become a part of it.
I’m unclear on this – has Rumy not been on the whole Cuckoos situation as explained by the time travelers, or is she just appearing to come to this conclusion organically for their benefit, to hide the future intelligence from them?
And Sun Tzu, there’s a difference between a retcon and an expansion of existing canon. Hyperman was already established as an alien who mimics human form and adopts human ideals through some form of memetic mutation (ha) and these guys appear to be subjects of the same process, whether it’s an extension of Clarkson’s original 23-sider catalyzed meeting (as Rumy, and Link’s Fox News-esque ranting seem to imply) or an independent wave of invaders.
Have to agree with some of the prior posters. All this grandstanding about the “true America” and being founded on justice… ehhhh… I can’t really get behind Rumy here… definitely veers into blinders-on Fox-news esque ranting territory. Also yeah, what gives with her suddenly “figuring this out?” Did she nod off during the part where it was all spelled out directly to her?
Agreed. And yet, Rumy became AEGIS’s martial art instructor because she believed she owed her sensei Kana the dissemination of the Everything Goes style, which gave her strength and identity, and which originated in Japan. She married Rikk and Ally in sort of japanese tea ceremony, and her belief in that ceremony’s validity was enough to make her tattoos burst aflame and hurt Agent Mulder. She might cringe at the thought of spending time with her sister, but Japan is also home to her dad and her brother Kuno (and maybe a few friends and allies, like Noriko and Yumiko). See where I’m going with this? Try as she might, she’s still a japanese girl living in the States.
Sun Tzu, it doesn’t seem to me that Rumy is trying to rewrite history on Hyperman. She had a negative impression of him for the start. Remember how her rape accusation led to Hyperman’s departure from earth? To Rumy, he never was the shining hero that Lance Clarkson’s wish expected him to be.
Others of the Fans may or may not have agreed at the time but they all are going to at least sympathize with Rumy, with whom they’ve been to hell and back.
I don’t get how anyone’s seeing Rumy’s actions as odd, I mean I belive she fully means what she’s saying, but she’s also saying it all to retort Link’s statement that they’re not on the side of Justice. Personally I say that Rumy’s statement isn’t well grounded, but that can be factored in as oh, THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT! Of corse Rumy’s not being to be able to give a well thought out lazer fired defence of America that everyone can get behind. Hell I say that shows just how great America is that we’ve got so many different oppions about ourself. I agree that America was founded on Justice, just that we’ve not been the best with following though with that goal.
For some reason, the discussion is reminding me of this quote. Can’t imagine why.
“He had some measure of the infuriating trait that causes a young man to be a nonconformist for its own sake and found that the surest way to shock most people, in those days, was to believe that some kinds of behavior were bad and others good, and that it was reasonable to live one’s life accordingly.”
— Neal Stephenson (The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady’s Illustrated Primer)
I don’t think that she was told about this. I’m pretty sure that Will, Shanna and Jared are the only ones who they put in the loop about the time-travelers so far. So this is Rumy being highly perceptive, not some sort of stupid overacting.
@Mobius- That’s a pretty closed-minded way of looking at things. She is a Japanese American. She’s not a Japanese girl living in the States. A person doesn’t have to completely abandon their old culture to come here and become part of a new one, and I think that the diversity that concept brings is one of our country’s greatest strengths (despite what some conservatives may have to say about immigration and foreigners). She doesn’t have to be one or the other, and she isn’t. She’s spent nearly half her life in the US, and this patriotism is nothing new from her. Doesn’t matter what her past is, this is her present. And I for one don’t think that she IS trying to completely disassociate herself from Japan- but she clearly considers America her home and has for quite some time. She’s always loved the USA, that’s something that’s been made very clear several times in this comic already and it hasn’t changed. (Oh, and I don’t think the ceremony had shit to do with her tattoos serving as symbols of faith. It was her faith in their relationship, not in a tea ceremony, Jesus, or eternal life.)
Here I wonder… are “americans” aware of the diffusion of their culture tru movies and tv shows? I have never been there, but I have “participated” of so many TV Thanksgiving nights, that its almost part of my culture already. In my country, kids go out in Halloween nights for trick or treat (they only say “Hulloweeeenn”, actually… 😀 ). When I was a teen most of my friends dreamed of relocating to USA. To live the “American Dream” every movie talked about. Heck, I remember my young self defending the right of the USA to intervent in foreign countries in the name of justice.
Now I know better….
Rumy… Rumy… i dont get what she stands for now…..
You gotta remember, Rumy’s America is not the real-life America. In Fansmerica, the evil government official that abused his powers get offed and his agency dismantled. In Realmerica, the evil government officials that abused their powers got away with everything and their legacy lives on in current policies. It’s a lot easier to be a patriot in Fansmerica, where the ‘bad guys’ get caught.
(As a side note, I was just reflecting the other day that It’s also a lot easier to be religious in Fansworld because there’s actual evidence for supernatural stuff. Rikk’s devout christianity is actually somewhat justified since he’s actually MET god and had his prayers answered with obvious, reproducible, supernatural effects.)
It’s not quite as absolute as that, @Stevarious. I try not to get too deeply into real-world politics in Fans, but this world has also had a President Bush and President Obama, and many of the historical details remain the same.
If you asked Rumy about those issues, she’d probably borrow a page from Captain America and say that she doesn’t support every law passed or every decision made, but she supports the ideal. And as long as she’s a soldier of AEGIS, she’ll fight for it.
As ever, opinions expressed by one character should not necessarily be taken as the final word from the author. There may be a lot of me in Rumy, but there’s also a fair amount of me in more cynical types like Will, Shanna and Katherine.
Now I’m imagining a bin Laden capture with no helicopter crash, because the SEALS were ‘ported in by the chiclets. Heh.
Seriously, though. I think you’ve done a very good job of portraying Fansworld as still having the same awfulness as the real world, in a lot of the same places. For instance, the public persecution of Rikk and his wives, despite True American Hero status, parallels very nicely with a recent Memorial day parade in Pennsylvania where actual US military veterans were boo’d, catcalled, and threatened with violence because they marched under a banner that said ‘Atheist’. Some types of people just have a huge problem with noncomformists, and it brings out some of the ugliest humanity has to offer – and this ugliness has been realistically portrayed in Fans.
The difference, I think, is that Fansworld actually HAS True American Heroes. Your own response reflects this – Rumy has to borrow a page from Captain America because there are no real life figures she can borrow the sentiment from. And in a lot of ways, that’s too bad. The Fans are heroes in Fansworld because it’s a different world that needs them to be what they are. In the real world, Rikk would be teaching history or literature in some christian college somewhere, constantly worried about his job (despite the fact that he’s the most popular teacher in the school) because he has too much integrity and imagination to accept or teach literal biblical creationism. Will would be just another failed actor, waiting tables between occasional gigs as ‘generic bad guy #3’. Shanna would still be writing for some small town rag. Rumy might’ve (if she were lucky) made it as an artist, but her martial arts would never be more than a hobby.
None of them would have ‘made it’ in the real world like they have in Fansworld – and that’s fine, don’t take it as negative criticism. I enjoy imagining a world where these people, these personalities, are valued and prosperous. I just think that it’s the fact that they DO live in a world where they prosper and are valued for who they are has a huge effect on their outlook. Rumy, the skilled artist who failed not because her artwork is lacking, but because her people skills and ability to make contacts in the industry were lacking, would find it much more difficult to muster, much less express, this level of patriotism.
Of course, that might just be my cynical side showing.
@Stevarious, no offense taken for sure, but just because I reached for Captain America as a reliable, familiar example doesn’t mean he’s the only one in existence. I live in a military town. There are soldiers who live up to that calling and soldiers who don’t. They’re not necessarily as CELEBRATED as the Kardashians, but they never did it for fame to begin with.
I do think the original Fans cast is less successful and, on average, less fulfilled in the P&Averse than in the Fansverse. There would be no Master Kana in a more realistic world, and I imagined Rumy wouldn’t have revolted quite so fast, and would have ended up in the Japanese comics biz.
But if she WERE to come over here, and if she managed to stay, she would probably be as fiery in her feelings about the country, whatever her role in it. It represents the freedom of choice to her. A quiet life on her own terms would still be a drastic improvement.
I had forgotten Rikk showed up in P&A – I was only remembering Meighan who isn’t much different at all in either world – perhaps a little more ruthless in P&A but basically the same person. Have any of the others made a cameo?
The fundamental difference, though, between Fansworld or CaptainAmericaWorld, is that in those worlds, heroes ARE celebrated. They don’t do it for fame, they do it because it needs doing, just like heroes in the real world. But in the real world, heroes are exploited for political gain and then ignored as they die of cancer. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-10-12/local/17935912_1_robert-grossman-cancer-stephen-grossman
At any rate, your point does stand. I have no trouble imagining Rumy, instead of a secret agent for the government, doing anything else at all and still feeling strongly about the freedoms that America stands for. I think what I was saying is that, in just living a quiet life on her own terms, they would just be her thoughts. Without the confidence that comes from being successful and having your ideals constantly validated, she would have a great amount of difficulty voicing them. They would never be more than thoughts and feelings.
Of course, I could be wrong. But I remember a strip a while back where Kath was talking about how Rikk and Rumy might be if they had never found the club. I can’t find it now (of course) but that’s what I’m going off of.
Nice to see some of Ru’s patriotism as well as her smarts. She’s been kicking butt in these new Fans runs so much you forget how much conviction and cunning she has.
*happy dance of new update time!*
Yay! This is awesome, just loveing this storyarc! And only two more to go in this plot chuck… Wonder where that’ll go!
I have a theory that it’ll end in pain and death for all involed… And we’ll have the next story be a follow up to this one contueing the fight to it’s finish and possablly after it as well.
I gotta say it’s a little odd to see Rumy, of all people, speaking so ardently in favor of the good ol’ US of A. I know that for Rumy Japan means stifling norms, suffocating conformity, constant subjugation, yadda, yadda, yadda, and the States means wonderful freedom to indulge in geekiness, artistic self-fulfillment and kinky sex, brighter sunshines, greener pastures and so on, but it’s still odd to see her defend so earnestly the honor of a country that has so much history with her country of origin. Or is Rumy so disgusted with Japan that she wants to dissociate from it completely?
America, for the most part, and please note that I said for the most part, owns up to its crapulence. We acknowledge our mistakes, like Japanese Internment Camps, the slaughter of the Natives, etc, etc. Japan is still denying its holocause that it committed on Chinese, Korean, and other natives that it concquored during WWII, doesn’t acknowledge that us dropping bombs on Hiroshima and Nagisaki saved lives in the long run for both sides, and other things where they screwed up. Maybe she’s just acknowledging that, for the most part, we’re the least evil choice out there.
The Hyperman thing still bothers me a bit, given that he WAS well-intentioned in his original story. Dunno how I feel about what’s looking like a retcon.
She likes America. She liked it enough to move here and join its government. I don’t think it’s odd for her to defend it.
I don’t think that thinking of herself as an American necessarily means she’s disgusted with everything (or anything) about Japan though. It just means that, first and foremost, she identifies with her new culture rather than her old one.
In fact, people who willingly move to another country often feel much more patriotic about their new home than most natives. While natives grew up there by chance, Rumy picked a country that embodied what she wanted in a country, and then made a choice to alter her whole life in order to become a part of it.
Eww, patriotism.
@ Sun Tzu: How does Hyperman being well-intentioned and these guys being… well, being not so well-intentioned constitute a ret-con?
I’m unclear on this – has Rumy not been on the whole Cuckoos situation as explained by the time travelers, or is she just appearing to come to this conclusion organically for their benefit, to hide the future intelligence from them?
And Sun Tzu, there’s a difference between a retcon and an expansion of existing canon. Hyperman was already established as an alien who mimics human form and adopts human ideals through some form of memetic mutation (ha) and these guys appear to be subjects of the same process, whether it’s an extension of Clarkson’s original 23-sider catalyzed meeting (as Rumy, and Link’s Fox News-esque ranting seem to imply) or an independent wave of invaders.
Have to agree with some of the prior posters. All this grandstanding about the “true America” and being founded on justice… ehhhh… I can’t really get behind Rumy here… definitely veers into blinders-on Fox-news esque ranting territory. Also yeah, what gives with her suddenly “figuring this out?” Did she nod off during the part where it was all spelled out directly to her?
@LockeZ
Agreed. And yet, Rumy became AEGIS’s martial art instructor because she believed she owed her sensei Kana the dissemination of the Everything Goes style, which gave her strength and identity, and which originated in Japan. She married Rikk and Ally in sort of japanese tea ceremony, and her belief in that ceremony’s validity was enough to make her tattoos burst aflame and hurt Agent Mulder. She might cringe at the thought of spending time with her sister, but Japan is also home to her dad and her brother Kuno (and maybe a few friends and allies, like Noriko and Yumiko). See where I’m going with this? Try as she might, she’s still a japanese girl living in the States.
@ Jesse
Sorry, I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree.
Sun Tzu, it doesn’t seem to me that Rumy is trying to rewrite history on Hyperman. She had a negative impression of him for the start. Remember how her rape accusation led to Hyperman’s departure from earth? To Rumy, he never was the shining hero that Lance Clarkson’s wish expected him to be.
Others of the Fans may or may not have agreed at the time but they all are going to at least sympathize with Rumy, with whom they’ve been to hell and back.
I don’t get how anyone’s seeing Rumy’s actions as odd, I mean I belive she fully means what she’s saying, but she’s also saying it all to retort Link’s statement that they’re not on the side of Justice. Personally I say that Rumy’s statement isn’t well grounded, but that can be factored in as oh, THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT! Of corse Rumy’s not being to be able to give a well thought out lazer fired defence of America that everyone can get behind. Hell I say that shows just how great America is that we’ve got so many different oppions about ourself. I agree that America was founded on Justice, just that we’ve not been the best with following though with that goal.
For some reason, the discussion is reminding me of this quote. Can’t imagine why.
I don’t think that she was told about this. I’m pretty sure that Will, Shanna and Jared are the only ones who they put in the loop about the time-travelers so far. So this is Rumy being highly perceptive, not some sort of stupid overacting.
@Mobius- That’s a pretty closed-minded way of looking at things. She is a Japanese American. She’s not a Japanese girl living in the States. A person doesn’t have to completely abandon their old culture to come here and become part of a new one, and I think that the diversity that concept brings is one of our country’s greatest strengths (despite what some conservatives may have to say about immigration and foreigners). She doesn’t have to be one or the other, and she isn’t. She’s spent nearly half her life in the US, and this patriotism is nothing new from her. Doesn’t matter what her past is, this is her present. And I for one don’t think that she IS trying to completely disassociate herself from Japan- but she clearly considers America her home and has for quite some time. She’s always loved the USA, that’s something that’s been made very clear several times in this comic already and it hasn’t changed. (Oh, and I don’t think the ceremony had shit to do with her tattoos serving as symbols of faith. It was her faith in their relationship, not in a tea ceremony, Jesus, or eternal life.)
*agrees 100% with Aydr*
Here I wonder… are “americans” aware of the diffusion of their culture tru movies and tv shows? I have never been there, but I have “participated” of so many TV Thanksgiving nights, that its almost part of my culture already. In my country, kids go out in Halloween nights for trick or treat (they only say “Hulloweeeenn”, actually… 😀 ). When I was a teen most of my friends dreamed of relocating to USA. To live the “American Dream” every movie talked about. Heck, I remember my young self defending the right of the USA to intervent in foreign countries in the name of justice.
Now I know better….
Rumy… Rumy… i dont get what she stands for now…..
You gotta remember, Rumy’s America is not the real-life America. In Fansmerica, the evil government official that abused his powers get offed and his agency dismantled. In Realmerica, the evil government officials that abused their powers got away with everything and their legacy lives on in current policies. It’s a lot easier to be a patriot in Fansmerica, where the ‘bad guys’ get caught.
(As a side note, I was just reflecting the other day that It’s also a lot easier to be religious in Fansworld because there’s actual evidence for supernatural stuff. Rikk’s devout christianity is actually somewhat justified since he’s actually MET god and had his prayers answered with obvious, reproducible, supernatural effects.)
It’s not quite as absolute as that, @Stevarious. I try not to get too deeply into real-world politics in Fans, but this world has also had a President Bush and President Obama, and many of the historical details remain the same.
If you asked Rumy about those issues, she’d probably borrow a page from Captain America and say that she doesn’t support every law passed or every decision made, but she supports the ideal. And as long as she’s a soldier of AEGIS, she’ll fight for it.
As ever, opinions expressed by one character should not necessarily be taken as the final word from the author. There may be a lot of me in Rumy, but there’s also a fair amount of me in more cynical types like Will, Shanna and Katherine.
Now I’m imagining a bin Laden capture with no helicopter crash, because the SEALS were ‘ported in by the chiclets. Heh.
Seriously, though. I think you’ve done a very good job of portraying Fansworld as still having the same awfulness as the real world, in a lot of the same places. For instance, the public persecution of Rikk and his wives, despite True American Hero status, parallels very nicely with a recent Memorial day parade in Pennsylvania where actual US military veterans were boo’d, catcalled, and threatened with violence because they marched under a banner that said ‘Atheist’. Some types of people just have a huge problem with noncomformists, and it brings out some of the ugliest humanity has to offer – and this ugliness has been realistically portrayed in Fans.
The difference, I think, is that Fansworld actually HAS True American Heroes. Your own response reflects this – Rumy has to borrow a page from Captain America because there are no real life figures she can borrow the sentiment from. And in a lot of ways, that’s too bad. The Fans are heroes in Fansworld because it’s a different world that needs them to be what they are. In the real world, Rikk would be teaching history or literature in some christian college somewhere, constantly worried about his job (despite the fact that he’s the most popular teacher in the school) because he has too much integrity and imagination to accept or teach literal biblical creationism. Will would be just another failed actor, waiting tables between occasional gigs as ‘generic bad guy #3’. Shanna would still be writing for some small town rag. Rumy might’ve (if she were lucky) made it as an artist, but her martial arts would never be more than a hobby.
None of them would have ‘made it’ in the real world like they have in Fansworld – and that’s fine, don’t take it as negative criticism. I enjoy imagining a world where these people, these personalities, are valued and prosperous. I just think that it’s the fact that they DO live in a world where they prosper and are valued for who they are has a huge effect on their outlook. Rumy, the skilled artist who failed not because her artwork is lacking, but because her people skills and ability to make contacts in the industry were lacking, would find it much more difficult to muster, much less express, this level of patriotism.
Of course, that might just be my cynical side showing.
@Stevarious, no offense taken for sure, but just because I reached for Captain America as a reliable, familiar example doesn’t mean he’s the only one in existence. I live in a military town. There are soldiers who live up to that calling and soldiers who don’t. They’re not necessarily as CELEBRATED as the Kardashians, but they never did it for fame to begin with.
I do think the original Fans cast is less successful and, on average, less fulfilled in the P&Averse than in the Fansverse. There would be no Master Kana in a more realistic world, and I imagined Rumy wouldn’t have revolted quite so fast, and would have ended up in the Japanese comics biz.
But if she WERE to come over here, and if she managed to stay, she would probably be as fiery in her feelings about the country, whatever her role in it. It represents the freedom of choice to her. A quiet life on her own terms would still be a drastic improvement.
I had forgotten Rikk showed up in P&A – I was only remembering Meighan who isn’t much different at all in either world – perhaps a little more ruthless in P&A but basically the same person. Have any of the others made a cameo?
The fundamental difference, though, between Fansworld or CaptainAmericaWorld, is that in those worlds, heroes ARE celebrated. They don’t do it for fame, they do it because it needs doing, just like heroes in the real world. But in the real world, heroes are exploited for political gain and then ignored as they die of cancer.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-10-12/local/17935912_1_robert-grossman-cancer-stephen-grossman
At any rate, your point does stand. I have no trouble imagining Rumy, instead of a secret agent for the government, doing anything else at all and still feeling strongly about the freedoms that America stands for. I think what I was saying is that, in just living a quiet life on her own terms, they would just be her thoughts. Without the confidence that comes from being successful and having your ideals constantly validated, she would have a great amount of difficulty voicing them. They would never be more than thoughts and feelings.
Of course, I could be wrong. But I remember a strip a while back where Kath was talking about how Rikk and Rumy might be if they had never found the club. I can’t find it now (of course) but that’s what I’m going off of.