But, going by those rules, if she DID happen to be faking it for some greater plan, then the sword would still work, right? Her cause would still be just, or at least she would believe so. I dunno, I’d just like to think Rumy’s smarter than this at this point.
Unless there’s a cuckoo we haven’t met that has brainwashing abilities I don’t see how she could be. She’s motivated to do what she’s doing to save her husband and now her son. I think she knows exactly what she’s doing and I’m not sure Jackie will be able to talk her down. I’d also be afraid for her life, but we see her with the other resistance members in the future so she might survive this.
OK, this is annoying. In Real Life(tm), there is No Such DAMN Thing as “shooting to wound”. There is no spot on the human body that you can shoot that would both A) Reliably incapacitate the target and B) Not involve life-threatening risk anyway. Even if that weren’t the case, only a trained sniper would have the skills to even attempt it. Please don’t invoke this tired and inaccurate trope again.
“Hey, Rumy! It’s me, Jackie! I’m here to help you! I believe in what you’re doing! It’s the same thing I was trying to do, that one time before you stopped me! I’m glad you finally came around! Let’s work together! You still have those dice, right?”
@Mike Crichton – Except, perhaps, on the rare occasion that you’re squaring off against a widely known and sympathetic international hero, and that hero has a melee rather than a ranged weapon. In that case, you might just give “shoot to wound” a shot.
You can totally shoot to wound. Just because there’s nowhere that’s perfectly safe to shoot someone in doesn’t mean that there aren’t safer places to hit that will still incapacitate… not like she has a gun. And I’m pretty sure she can’t throw Excalibur and have it boomerang to her hand. She can’t walk, she can’t fight.
Brainwashed works. It doesn’t need to be mechanical mumbo hypnosis jumbo or something. She’s been taken to a moment of trauma, given a revelation, fed half truths, and slivers of fact to lead her to the conclusion the cuckoos want her to reach.
Sounds like brainwashing to me. The trick will be to get her to listen, realize what steps she’s taken, and convince her that she’s going down the wrong path.
Christopher: Unless the people you’re giving the order to are all professional snipers (Which the ones we see on panel _aren’t_, or they’d be using different equipment), it’s pointless to even try.
Commiekeebler: There’s this thing called the “femoral artery” you might have heard of.
This is not just my opinion here, google the phrase ‘shoot to wound’, 5 minutes research should show you that the overwhelming consensus of the professionals is that it’s Hollywood BS and/or civilian wishful thinking.
As for Rumy’s rampage, all you have to do to stop it is to remember how King Arthur lost the sword in the first place. Since _this_ Excalibur appears to have all the powers mentioned in Arthurian fantasy, it follows that it probably will also react as it did when King Arthur lost it (i. e. fat good it did to Arthur when he battled his son/nephew Mordred) .
See that they’re making a slight miscalculation as to the powers of Excalibur.
It doesn’t grant invulnerability, its powers are to grant its wielder victory in battle..
It was its sheath that prevented someone from bleeding to death.
Hence why Arthur won a Pyrrhic victory during the Battle of Camlann, as while he slew Mordred (although with a lance and not with his blade), without the sheath (which had been lost before) the wound he suffered doing so, ended up being fatal.
And there are no restrictions on Excalibur as to who can use it*, having a just cause has nothing to do with it. That belongs more to the sword acquired by Sir Balin, the Knight of Two Swords, although to be precise, it has more to do with drawing that blade from its sheath. As only one, who is pure of heart, loyal and free of treachery could draw the sword, and thereby undo the sword-belt of the Lady Lile of Avelion, who was kinda stuck with the danged thing and couldn’t get it off..
*: At most it might be something like only those deemed worthy by the Lady of the Lake may wield it, but even that’s a long shot for a restriction, as there are no legends which actively support this idea.
^ Welcome to the world of fiction in which myths and legends can and will be altered so that they better suit the story. Don’t think of it as the Excalibur we know about, think of it as the Excalibur from the Fans Universe.
*Of course* when the protagonist receives the Sword of De Facto Invincibility +5, they switch sides and become a problem to solve. All the bad guys are invincible these days, they should’ve totally seen that coming.
Am I the only one to notice the traces of Jason’s blue Tipp-Ex?
@ Mike Crichton: But the Fans live in a universe in which tropes run rampant. Their world is not realistic at all. So, “shoot to wound” is apparently possibe.
@Mike Crichton: Every Swiss soldier holding a weapon has to be able to safely hit a standing or directly approaching target into foot, thigh and shoulder with their rifle at 60 to 70 feet a distance. If they can’t, they’re not cleared for guard duty. Practically all succeed.
Now I know perfectly well that both thigh and shoulder (the latter being the emergency target) are far from being completely safe targets (especially the shoulder), the chances of not killing someone when hitting there are rather low (especially with a medic near you) while still most likely incapacitating him.
@Thomas: Nope, you aren’t. The ghost image of Marc in the last comic actually had me wondering briefly if the gang were still messing around with the illusion-generating tech.
And as for what powers Excalibur FANS! Edition does or does not have, look again at the second panel. Maybe it doesn’t need to have special invincibility-granting enchantment in order to make Rumi invincible; maybe the sword itself being indestructible, plus her being a master martial artist, is enough.
Just noticed I completely messed up my last paragraph three comments up.
Last part there should read: “…, yet the chances of outright killing someone when hitting there are rather low (especially with a medic near you) while still most likely incapacitating him.”
If you aim in the general area of their legs, as opposed to head, chest or stomach, you have a higher chance of not killing the target… unless you have a really big gun.
You have a non-zero chance of killing target outright if you so much as wave a gun in their general direction. That goes without saying.
Lukkai: The Swiss military hasn’t been in an actual shooting war in almost 200 years, the training doctrines and reality have almost certainly parted ways.
@Mike Crichton: 160 years to be more precise (last Swiss civil war). That is unless you count the deployment during the national strike (yes, there was some fighting). I have to count in the two World Wars, though. Even if there weren’t more than maybe a few small exchanges of fire due to misunderstandings, the military was in the field full force. And an actual operation not just a drill, training had to take account of this.Making it a good 65 years. Granted, back then you generally shot to kill, so it doesn’t really contributes to this discussion at all.
But the Swiss military also has regularily been doing so called subsidiary missions, helping out police forces where manpower was too low, for decades now. I myself for example have been standing as an armed guard in front, respectively behind both the Turkish and the US-American embassy in Berne during one of my yearly services. A job where it is way more important to go for non deadly shots than in a shooting war. Missions like these are part of what you are prepared for and that has to be up to date!
Also no offense. But simply judging a training doctrine that you don’t know as unrealistic just so that it suits your point of view strikes me as a bit cheap an argument.
@Mike you can shoot to wound. Going for the knees is a viable tactic. Yes it’s a difficult target and yes there is high risk of life threatening injury. Since police are trained in marksmanship they have a decent chance to wound. And if there is that many police trying to stop a rampaging person doing mass amounts of damage, you bet your ass there’s some swat snipers waiting to put her down. Or wound as the order was given. A sniper can most definitely hit small targets like the knee. And if you say they were not depicted in the strip, well that’s the point, your not supposed to see snipers.
Huh.
But, going by those rules, if she DID happen to be faking it for some greater plan, then the sword would still work, right? Her cause would still be just, or at least she would believe so. I dunno, I’d just like to think Rumy’s smarter than this at this point.
Unless there’s a cuckoo we haven’t met that has brainwashing abilities I don’t see how she could be. She’s motivated to do what she’s doing to save her husband and now her son. I think she knows exactly what she’s doing and I’m not sure Jackie will be able to talk her down. I’d also be afraid for her life, but we see her with the other resistance members in the future so she might survive this.
SCARY ANGRY GIRL
FIVE ROUNDS RAPID
If Jackie has herself in mind to talk Rumy off the proverbial cliff, it was nice knowing her.
If she’s planning on bringing Ally in, full marks.
OK, this is annoying. In Real Life(tm), there is No Such DAMN Thing as “shooting to wound”. There is no spot on the human body that you can shoot that would both A) Reliably incapacitate the target and B) Not involve life-threatening risk anyway. Even if that weren’t the case, only a trained sniper would have the skills to even attempt it. Please don’t invoke this tired and inaccurate trope again.
I defy you to find a sin
@ Arky. That could be since Donna just asked where everyone wanted to go next and she can teleport.
Plant the seeds of doubt.
…
“Hey, Rumy! It’s me, Jackie! I’m here to help you! I believe in what you’re doing! It’s the same thing I was trying to do, that one time before you stopped me! I’m glad you finally came around! Let’s work together! You still have those dice, right?”
Yeah, that should do it.
@Mike Crichton – Except, perhaps, on the rare occasion that you’re squaring off against a widely known and sympathetic international hero, and that hero has a melee rather than a ranged weapon. In that case, you might just give “shoot to wound” a shot.
Thighs, ankles.
You can totally shoot to wound. Just because there’s nowhere that’s perfectly safe to shoot someone in doesn’t mean that there aren’t safer places to hit that will still incapacitate… not like she has a gun. And I’m pretty sure she can’t throw Excalibur and have it boomerang to her hand. She can’t walk, she can’t fight.
But Jackie, can’t you see how annoyed Excalibur is? With that huge anger vein, and… oh, never mind.
Brainwashed works. It doesn’t need to be mechanical mumbo hypnosis jumbo or something. She’s been taken to a moment of trauma, given a revelation, fed half truths, and slivers of fact to lead her to the conclusion the cuckoos want her to reach.
Sounds like brainwashing to me. The trick will be to get her to listen, realize what steps she’s taken, and convince her that she’s going down the wrong path.
Christopher: Unless the people you’re giving the order to are all professional snipers (Which the ones we see on panel _aren’t_, or they’d be using different equipment), it’s pointless to even try.
Commiekeebler: There’s this thing called the “femoral artery” you might have heard of.
This is not just my opinion here, google the phrase ‘shoot to wound’, 5 minutes research should show you that the overwhelming consensus of the professionals is that it’s Hollywood BS and/or civilian wishful thinking.
Jackie!
Cheerio, luv! Bloody long time no see ya!
As for Rumy’s rampage, all you have to do to stop it is to remember how King Arthur lost the sword in the first place. Since _this_ Excalibur appears to have all the powers mentioned in Arthurian fantasy, it follows that it probably will also react as it did when King Arthur lost it (i. e. fat good it did to Arthur when he battled his son/nephew Mordred) .
See that they’re making a slight miscalculation as to the powers of Excalibur.
It doesn’t grant invulnerability, its powers are to grant its wielder victory in battle..
It was its sheath that prevented someone from bleeding to death.
Hence why Arthur won a Pyrrhic victory during the Battle of Camlann, as while he slew Mordred (although with a lance and not with his blade), without the sheath (which had been lost before) the wound he suffered doing so, ended up being fatal.
And there are no restrictions on Excalibur as to who can use it*, having a just cause has nothing to do with it. That belongs more to the sword acquired by Sir Balin, the Knight of Two Swords, although to be precise, it has more to do with drawing that blade from its sheath. As only one, who is pure of heart, loyal and free of treachery could draw the sword, and thereby undo the sword-belt of the Lady Lile of Avelion, who was kinda stuck with the danged thing and couldn’t get it off..
*: At most it might be something like only those deemed worthy by the Lady of the Lake may wield it, but even that’s a long shot for a restriction, as there are no legends which actively support this idea.
^ Welcome to the world of fiction in which myths and legends can and will be altered so that they better suit the story. Don’t think of it as the Excalibur we know about, think of it as the Excalibur from the Fans Universe.
Also, Yay, Jackie!
*Of course* when the protagonist receives the Sword of De Facto Invincibility +5, they switch sides and become a problem to solve. All the bad guys are invincible these days, they should’ve totally seen that coming.
Am I the only one to notice the traces of Jason’s blue Tipp-Ex?
@ Mike Crichton: But the Fans live in a universe in which tropes run rampant. Their world is not realistic at all. So, “shoot to wound” is apparently possibe.
@Mike Crichton: Every Swiss soldier holding a weapon has to be able to safely hit a standing or directly approaching target into foot, thigh and shoulder with their rifle at 60 to 70 feet a distance. If they can’t, they’re not cleared for guard duty. Practically all succeed.
Now I know perfectly well that both thigh and shoulder (the latter being the emergency target) are far from being completely safe targets (especially the shoulder), the chances of not killing someone when hitting there are rather low (especially with a medic near you) while still most likely incapacitating him.
@Thomas: I noticed it, but I had no idea what it was. (Why use blue Tipp-Ex on white paper, though?)
@Thomas: Nope, you aren’t. The ghost image of Marc in the last comic actually had me wondering briefly if the gang were still messing around with the illusion-generating tech.
And as for what powers Excalibur FANS! Edition does or does not have, look again at the second panel. Maybe it doesn’t need to have special invincibility-granting enchantment in order to make Rumi invincible; maybe the sword itself being indestructible, plus her being a master martial artist, is enough.
Just noticed I completely messed up my last paragraph three comments up.
Last part there should read: “…, yet the chances of outright killing someone when hitting there are rather low (especially with a medic near you) while still most likely incapacitating him.”
If you aim in the general area of their legs, as opposed to head, chest or stomach, you have a higher chance of not killing the target… unless you have a really big gun.
You have a non-zero chance of killing target outright if you so much as wave a gun in their general direction. That goes without saying.
@ Platonix: Damn, you’re right! Different colour of Tipp-Ex, though. More subtle.
Lukkai: The Swiss military hasn’t been in an actual shooting war in almost 200 years, the training doctrines and reality have almost certainly parted ways.
@Mike Crichton: 160 years to be more precise (last Swiss civil war). That is unless you count the deployment during the national strike (yes, there was some fighting). I have to count in the two World Wars, though. Even if there weren’t more than maybe a few small exchanges of fire due to misunderstandings, the military was in the field full force. And an actual operation not just a drill, training had to take account of this.Making it a good 65 years. Granted, back then you generally shot to kill, so it doesn’t really contributes to this discussion at all.
But the Swiss military also has regularily been doing so called subsidiary missions, helping out police forces where manpower was too low, for decades now. I myself for example have been standing as an armed guard in front, respectively behind both the Turkish and the US-American embassy in Berne during one of my yearly services. A job where it is way more important to go for non deadly shots than in a shooting war. Missions like these are part of what you are prepared for and that has to be up to date!
Also no offense. But simply judging a training doctrine that you don’t know as unrealistic just so that it suits your point of view strikes me as a bit cheap an argument.
@Mike you can shoot to wound. Going for the knees is a viable tactic. Yes it’s a difficult target and yes there is high risk of life threatening injury. Since police are trained in marksmanship they have a decent chance to wound. And if there is that many police trying to stop a rampaging person doing mass amounts of damage, you bet your ass there’s some swat snipers waiting to put her down. Or wound as the order was given. A sniper can most definitely hit small targets like the knee. And if you say they were not depicted in the strip, well that’s the point, your not supposed to see snipers.